Curse

Marth Reynolds · May 07, 2007, 08:04 AM // 08:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by SirJackassIII

It's quite simple:
Post-nerf PvE poster: "ZOMG, they nerfed my build, it's useless in PvE now."
Post-nerf PvP poster: "QQ, it's balanced for/more useable PvP now."
Post-nerf PvE poster: "Well, yeah, but what about PvE? We use those skills as well."
Post-nerf PvP poster: "What are you complaining about? Use Sunspear God Mode build, you have PvE only skills for a reason."
Post-nerf PvE poster: "But I don't want to use it, it makes PvE too simple because they're horribly overpowered."
Post-nerf PvP poster: "PvE was easy anyway"
etc...

Basically, they're "nerf PvE skills and get out of jail free" cards.

I'm so hoping that won't be the case, you'd be limited to having to use those skills cause others just aren't cutting it anymore

PvE only skills is fine IMO, just don't make them to overpowerd or we'll go back to some perverted holy trinity; for example: "Permanent block warrior" LF "Super killing Storm ele" and "mass mark of protection monk"...

On the other had some good overpowerd Mesmer, Paragon, Rit and Assasin skills might make these classes more popular.

Kas · May 07, 2007, 08:26 AM // 08:26

If those PVE skills are anywhere as imba as Lightbringers Gaze we look upon very dark times.

Taala · May 07, 2007, 09:03 AM // 09:03

These PvE-only skills are basically the main reason I'm considering to not buy GW:EN. I guess now I can't avoid them that easily.

Lightbringer's Gaze was just annoying to keep with you. I make fun builds to play for PvE and then it's pretty much required to have that Gaze with you at later stages of Nightfall (well henchies don't mind if you don't keep it with you, so that's still fun), messing that fun build and adding a boring skill you spam at your enemies whenever it's recharged.

"Wait and see" I suppose, but I'm not keeping my hopes up.

Shadow Dragon · May 07, 2007, 09:04 AM // 09:04

i don't see how lightbringers gaze is imba, yeah sure it does loads of damage and interrupts the enemy but that is offset by imo relatively long recharge. now if it had a 5 second recharge with it's damage potential you'd just see a bunch of ele's running around spammin the living crap out of it nvm using other skills in between then yes it would be imbalanced but as it is now it's good enough.

Kas · May 07, 2007, 11:40 AM // 11:40

A full player party with LB can spike through a complete map in a matter of 30 minutes with each fight lasting less than 20 seconds. Who cares about recharge when they die instantly?
And LB gaze becomes really retarded once you start making builds around it. Ever tried Echo, Arcane Echo, LB Gaze, Serpents Quickness?

prism2525 · May 07, 2007, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Imo i think it's best to have some real pack-a-punch skills reserved for PvE where things which are slightly off balance won't result in the end of the world.

If certain mobs will use the same skills then it's not imbalanced at all.

Ex. which is your first target when fighting a group of 3 roaring ethers and 1 ruby djinn?

Alleji · May 07, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Please don't make PvE dead-easy again. I'm actually having some fun in hard mode.

Series · May 07, 2007, 09:03 PM // 21:03

I am hoping for 8 skills per profession, all so unbalanced that making a skillbar from them will allow you to solo hard mode without putting any effort into it.

Why? Because then I will know for a fact to give up on Anet and go play a new game. Right now I am still debating it, and I hope Anet will just make the decision for me.

sindex · May 07, 2007, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clord

But we get then when EotN comes out. So why to say they come sooner?

Okay there are two versions of these new PvE skills that A-net wants to release. They are the following:

1.The new Sunspear PvE skills that are supposed to go hand in hand with hard mode. From what I hear they are catered to every profession, so naturally there are different Sunspear skills overall. These are suppose to be released soon according to A-net. On a side note to that; they are still working on that supposed mesmer buff, which I have no idea if it will be in the form of these new Sunpear PvE skills or not.

2.The EotN 50 PvE only skills that will be inserted in GW when it actually comes out in the third quarter of this year. They are supposed to be reminiscent to what we have now for the sunspear and lighbringer skills. Probably be catered to another title system; which means more grind probably. In which A-net states, “The community loves the grind.”

I hope that helped in distinguishing between the two different skill sets in the coming year or so.

NoChance · May 07, 2007, 11:02 PM // 23:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Series

I am hoping for 8 skills per profession, all so unbalanced that making a skillbar from them will allow you to solo hard mode without putting any effort into it.

Why? Because then I will know for a fact to give up on Anet and go play a new game. Right now I am still debating it, and I hope Anet will just make the decision for me.

that's really funny -- and sad at the same time...

...but I basically feel the same way as you!

Master Ketsu · May 08, 2007, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by unienaule

Speculation about speculation about some off-hand remark made by Gaile for the loss. If you think Gaile thinks forever about everything she says and every possible way it COULD be taken, you are wrong.

Quoted for TRUTH.

The game industry is alot more secretive then most gamers realize. Gaile is purposefully vague in her notes because her job depends on it.

Cass · May 08, 2007, 08:58 AM // 08:58

Agree with Taala.

The addition of PvE-only skills is a mistake. It rips apart the whole premise of GW where your skills, equipment and level is fixed. Within those limits, your 'skill' determines how well you do vs the PvE mobs and vs other players.

They might as well have raised the level cap on PvE. "Soul Reaping nerfed? Ah well, it still gives +26 energy every 5 secs with my lvl30 Necro."

It is obvious that the PvE-only skills will be like LB gaze: overpowered on specific targets, requiring grind to use. It is obvious because the single most problematic issue about skill balance to date is the cry-out over "PvP nerfs that spoiled my PvE experience". So to keep nerfing they have to give PvE players another lollipop: a brutally overpowered skill to use for everyone, or two. Sadly, this will be a very boring play experience and it will widen the gap between PvE and PvP immensely, with crossover from PvE (where most people start I believe) to PvE even less likely than it is now.

trobinson97 · May 08, 2007, 11:26 AM // 11:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Dragon

i don't see how lightbringers gaze is imba, yeah sure it does loads of damage and interrupts the enemy but that is offset by imo relatively long recharge. now if it had a 5 second recharge with it's damage potential you'd just see a bunch of ele's running around spammin the living crap out of it nvm using other skills in between then yes it would be imbalanced but as it is now it's good enough.

Not to mention the many overlapping overpowered groups you're likely to run into in RoT. I don't think it's imbalanced at all. I just really hate the childishness that inevitably comes between pvprs and pvers when the subject is brought up. Too many nerds in one place.

SotiCoto · May 08, 2007, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

The skills will be SO IMBA, that PvErs won't care if Anet make good balance decisions (like Soul Reaping, etc etc), and PvP will get better balance without constant crying from PvErs who can't win GW without imba skills.

Translation: The skills might be selectively useful but only in certain PvE areas, so A-Net won't need to "balance" them, and PvE will still be functional without constant crying from PvPers because they lose to cookie-cutter builds with viable skills.

And on another note.... new Sunspear skills won't be worth squat to those poor souls who don't have Nightfall (and downright annoying if one actually needs the ugly title active to use them)..... and what the hell good are Lightbringer skills anywhere but the Domain of Anguish?

Admittedly I'm not sure whether it was my Lightbringer title or something else that made Hell's Precipice so much easier last time I tried it than the previous time... but it WAS easier...

Avarre · May 08, 2007, 11:51 AM // 11:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cass

Agree with Taala.

The addition of PvE-only skills is a mistake. It rips apart the whole premise of GW where your skills, equipment and level is fixed. Within those limits, your 'skill' determines how well you do vs the PvE mobs and vs other players.

Quality post.

Adding PvE only skills is a step in the opposite direction from the entire concept of Guild Wars - where the skills and their setups were balanced so that your player skill mattered. Monster and PvE only skills just result in reduced skillbars and one-dimensional play.

The majority of PvE players don't appreciate nerfs to their setups because they don't necessarily take an objective view of how the skills are balanced in the context of the rest of the game. This is because PvE is styled to win, so anything that lets a team win is 'good'. How many times in PvE do you face skill-based imbalances that would prompt a PvE outcry?

There are huge numbers of things that were imbalanced, and the structure of PvE is to blame as much as the skills themselves. Adding PvE-only skills, which by nature of their inception are going to be better in some way than the standard level of skills, just throws away the whole point and any chance of balancing Guild Wars to the old manner, unless they bring in entirely split skill lists. Even then, that would just mean a change in the design of PvE opposition could result in morphing the balance plane of PvE-only skills to the same as standard skills, resulting in one list again.

Summary : PvE-only skills are silly.

ayame ftw · May 08, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

Quoted for TRUTH.

The game industry is alot more secretive then most gamers realize. Gaile is purposefully vague in her notes because her job depends on it.

My motto is: say something useful or don’t say anything at all...

Not even once have I had any benefit of reading the gale chats, the only thing those chat logs do is make people jump to conclusions (mostly the wrong ones) and tell u what they are not doing.
I can make u a template of a chat log so u don’t have to read one ever again:
- Yes I like gemans, French, Spanish (ola, bonjour, )
- * random emote *
- Some babbling about being a GM and the ability to type in pink
- There is no word on: auction house, hairstylists, Ha, etc (and all other useful stuff)
- Look there is a frog, he sits by a water cooler and says random bull
- Oooh that’s cute (something random)
- * random emote *
- Yes I have pink armor
- Rangers are the best
- There are no monthly fees (times a bazillion)
- * random emote *
- lot new stuff is coming, but I can say anything!
- * random emote *
- I cook all kinds of thing
- Events are fun
- * random emote *
- Minipets, they are cute, sweet, adorable and I want more * random emote * times 10
- Random people trading with here
o A she accepts (thank u, that’s so sweet!)
o B she declines (sorry that’s way to valuable * random emote *)
- Lets conga (click the retard in front of u and hit space!)

don’t understand why some people still bother with this nonsense…

Wildi · May 08, 2007, 12:27 PM // 12:27

we had celestial (character specific pve only) skills in factions and those were a great addition & strong but could only be used in the last two missions and were disabled after it has been used once until recharged by a morale boost. I think sunspear pve skills will be more like normal skills, less powerful but useful. They are way too many useless skills because they are balanced around lvl 20 environment with only 6-8 lvl 20 opponents in mind (pvp), skills like incoming were adjusted around multiple classes and became useless and imbalanced for a single support paragon -> real balance is impossible to achieve. High recharge & single target ability is usually a second choice in pve. Not even mesmer pve skills will change it. Now in other words, the addition of pve only skills is the best thing which can happen and I'm looking forward to see them.

Alderin · May 08, 2007, 01:21 PM // 13:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

My motto is: say something useful or don’t say anything at all...

Not even once have I had any benefit of reading the gale chats, the only thing those chat logs do is make people jump to conclusions (mostly the wrong ones) and tell u what they are not doing.
I can make u a template of a chat log so u don’t have to read one ever again:
- Yes I like gemans, French, Spanish (ola, bonjour, )
- * random emote *
- Some babbling about being a GM and the ability to type in pink
- There is no word on: auction house, hairstylists, Ha, etc (and all other useful stuff)
- Look there is a frog, he sits by a water cooler and says random bull
- Oooh that’s cute (something random)
- * random emote *
- Yes I have pink armor
- Rangers are the best
- There are no monthly fees (times a bazillion)
- * random emote *
- lot new stuff is coming, but I can say anything!
- * random emote *
- I cook all kinds of thing
- Events are fun
- * random emote *
- Minipets, they are cute, sweet, adorable and I want more * random emote * times 10
- Random people trading with here
o A she accepts (thank u, that’s so sweet!)
o B she declines (sorry that’s way to valuable * random emote *)
- Lets conga (click the retard in front of u and hit space!)

don’t understand why some people still bother with this nonsense…

After being in towns many times when these chats take place, I must say that is a very good summary of them. It'd be much better to actually talk about the issues with the game rather than what amounts to praise seeking, atleast in my opinion that is.

Keithark · May 08, 2007, 01:39 PM // 13:39

All skills should be PvE only if they are taken into PvE. In other words all skills should go back to their original pre-nerf form for PvE. PvP can have all the same skills only nerfed to nothingness (their current state). The only good thing about the new PvE only skills is maybe they will be powerfull enough that we can start making money again solo farming with them

sindex · May 08, 2007, 05:12 PM // 17:12

I have to disagree with the people who don’t want these PvE only skills. First of all I have yet to see where Lightbringer or Sunspear skills are so over powered, where they can kill all opposition. It’s really hard to see these skills turning PvE into a type droll atmosphere, since there will be more effort then button mashing. Here is the question I have to ask; we all know about some of the “rez shrines” or even the some holiday items that enhances our characters abilities in PvE? So let me ask have you; have you ever used one of these enhancements in PvE? If you have then it probably be no different then these new PvE only skills. I hope that what these skills represent as a whole is a type of enhancement to the PvE experience.

The Second thing is that they will never raise the “level cap” or let skills be divided in both PvE and PvP. From what I can see now, A-net is obsesses with balance so I highly doubt this will be the way they solve the problem (for it might cause problem in the long run). I have to agree, the only way to fix this problem with certain classes “being under-powered in PvE” is to add these new skills to the mix. I would defiantly love to see what they did to enhance the mesmer class (for PvE) via these new skills.

Finally I would like to put that you don’t have to use these new skills if you don’t want too. They will be optional like all the skills are out there right now. Even if you’re in a group that people ask you to use these new skills, you simply don’t have to join that group. As a matter a fact you can start your own group that will not use these skills.

So let us wait and see what these new skills have to offer, and then we will know if they were well worth it in the coming future.